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Must security come at the cost of freedom?

A long time ago, I figure at least 5 years ago, one of my best friends Jason presented a question for discussion. He asked if it is possible to increase security without sacrificing our freedoms?

I joined in on the discussion, trying to point out different ways that our security might increase without a loss of our freedom. I do not remember the exact words of the discussion, but I do remember the basic concepts that were brought out. I tried to use differing technologies to show that security could be increased significantly without people noticing. Jason would rightly argue that even if the general populace did not know that it’s freedoms were being eroded, they still were. If they changes that I suggested were put into place people would be tracked, monitored and herded like never before and people would think that they were still free and yet would actually have less freedom then they ever would with currently implemented technology.

One might wonder why I thought of this discussion today?

I was watching the Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC, and she was talking about a man in Maine who was shot by his wife because he was physically abusing her. The police went to the crime scene and interviewed neighbors. It turns out that the neighbors had seen her being abused by her husband. They also found out that he was an admirer of Adolf Hitler, collected his memorabilia, wanted to join a local Nazi group and had collected most if not all of the ingredients to a Dirty Bomb. The idea she is espousing is that we might want to consider looking more in our backyard and less in Afghanistan to prevent terrorist attacks. However, I took away a little more.

It hit me that these neighbors had witnessed a man abusing his wife and had done nothing. He wasn’t even reported. It struck me as strange that people would just let this occur without even attempting to do anything about it. This one little part of a much larger show resonated with me and managed to resurrect a memory left almost dead in the past. The memory was brought to the fore cause I was able to see, partly due to this segment, what the answer is.

If you approach the problem with the mindset that only an outside entity, like the government, can act to increase our security then you will always fail to provide a way to increase security without losing freedom. The key is accepting personal responsibility, and to be personally aware. The way to increase your security is to be an active participant in your neighborhood and society. You need to keep alert and in shape. You need to educate yourself so you understand what you perceive. You also need to be willing to act if you see something wrong.

Yes, you need to be willing to act if you see something wrong. That can be a scary thought. After all, what could happen if you act? Is it possible that you might be hurt? Perhaps you would be killed? The police would tell you to call them and don’t act. That is the safe way, and it may also solve the issue. However, it will be at the cost of your freedom.

The usual reason that acting on your own is so dangerous is because you are often alone. I am not calling for any lone vigilante action when I suggest that someone act when they see something wrong. I am instead trying to call everyone in their respective communities to action! When people who live together take care of each other the chances of anyone there being attacked are lowered signifigantly. So if a bunch of people like those who were interviewed above had gotten together and confronted the husband in Maine and reported him and otherwise acted against him, the chances of him being found out as a Nazi and a dirty bomb parts collector and potential maker would have been significantly higher. When all in a neighborhood act as one for the security of all, freedoms are not curtailed. In fact, they are increased! People feel safer in their own homes. Perhaps even the property values would go up, for the financial minded reading this. There is no real downside to being part of an active and cohesive community in terms of security. One just must be careful that the community does not try to control their members, but merely afford protection and guidance.

That was knawing at my brain for quite a while, subconciously at least. Jason is known to remember different discussions that stand incomplete, even if they have been resting for years. I wonder if one day he will bring up this discussion? If so, I have an answer. One that should have been common sense, but has been running counter to the way many modern Americans have been taught in the last decades.

  • http://www.crowgyrls.com/ Meg

    National security and personal security is never guaranteed–no matter how much freedom or liberty you yield willingly or “take away” from unsuspecting, unthinking people. National security starts with personal responsibility one person, one country at a time. Like you said, T, we need to stop wrong-doing whilst its happening. We need to do the right thing on a personal level. We should not turn our heads while others are being harmed, even if our own personal safety is at risk. When we leave matters to the police or to “others” — we lose security, we lose strength as communities. We lose humanity when we spend more time twittering than we do with our children or friends or getting to know the timid neighbor lady.

    However, ‘acting’ to prevent harm that may come to others, interfering in a domestic dispute for example can be a deadly choice. We must weigh the action with the consequences with the possible outcomes. At what cost do we pursue personal responsibility? At what cost do we pursue the act of doing good? I know it is and always has been a gut reaction for me. I do what it is right. I interfere in domestic violence. I help others who need help. I help others who ask. I give money to the vagrants who litter street corners. I give food to the man with a box in front of the store. I am a paid member of the Audubon Society, ACLU, and the Arbor Day Foundation. I give to charity. I volunteer. I called the police when I saw my neighbor towering above his wife, threatening her with violence. I’ve planted trees. I’ve gathered resources to help women leave abusive relationships. I’ve counseled many to find their own paths. I believe in doing whats right. The line begins to blur when we must define “what is right”.

    When we take this practice of “personal responsibility” to a national level or a world level it gets a bit complicated. Our right is not necessarily right for other countries, other societies. How do we decide what is right? Is it “right” for us to decide for others? And what price are we willing to pay for doing “the right thing”? What are we willing to sacrifice? National security? When we insist on doing the “right” thing on a national level, we must be ready to pay the toll. First, we must decide what is right and then we must get other countries to support that notion. If they do, we proceed in good conscience but do so knowing we may make the offenders angry. They may retaliate. This is true for the man beating his wife and for the country beating its people and for the religious group oppressing its subjects.

    Even if we mind our own national business and never interfere with other countries affairs, which I assure you we will never do, we still do not guarantee freedom. And robbing us our freedoms and liberties will not protect us. Think of the police states of the past. Were those people safe? Were they secure? It is a non-argument, a smokescreen to distract us from the truth. There is no permanent, untouchable safety. Not in our neighborhoods or state or country or world. We cannot bargain away our freedom for safety. There will always be terrorists. There will always be the abusive husband beating his wife and children. There will always be the rogue country. There will always be the extreme religions. There will always be the two-bit thug who shoots the elderly couple for the little money they have stashed away for a rainy day. There will always be the threat of harm. Our Government cannot protect us from everything forever and always. We elect people into the Government in order to make decisions for our local cities, states and even our country. Then we must trust them to do this or vote them out. We will as a nation step into dangerous situations “to do the right thing.” We will do this rightfully and not-so-rightfully as we did with the Iraq war. We, the people, supported this war as a country in the beginning because we were lied to and now we know the truth. Does that make any difference to the young extreme fundamentalist recruit who watched his family die in the process? No. And pray tell…how will giving up our freedoms help prevent him from becoming a rightful citizen and turning one day into a mass murderer? How would giving up our freedoms or liberties protect us from the maniac born and bred in this country who cannot take another day of his tortured mind and so he shoots up a school? It cannot. It will not.

    Our Government CANNOT guarantee our safety all the time from every threat. But it can become a threat in and of itself if we allow it to strip us of our basic rights—yielding our own personal rights to allow it to become a secret police state. Our founding fathers had the good sense to create the Constitution which set in place our personal freedoms and liberties, our inalienable rights, while setting up inviolable restrictions on what our Government can do to us without proper procedure. When we allow these inalienable rights to be taken from us we are in MORE danger, not less. We then have a group of people who do not and cannot always make the right decisions with UNCHECKED power and we have no recourse to set things straight. Our Constitution keeps the very important system of checks and balances in our government protected. Power unchecked corrupts, folks. Laws such as the Patriot Act rape our Constitutional rights and leave us no safer.

    The Government now has the power to listen in on EVERY single conversation, to read every email, to monitor our web surfing, to know what we purchase at the grocery story, even to know every book you’ve ever checked out—but how are we safer? Do you feel safer? Where in the Patriot Act or any other loss of personal freedom can you prove security and safety? Where is the data to back it up? Where is the proof? Where is the evidence? There is none. It is a scare-tactic—hyperbole.

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin

  • http://www.crowgyrls.com Meg

    National security and personal security is never guaranteed–no matter how much freedom or liberty you yield willingly or “take away” from unsuspecting, unthinking people. National security starts with personal responsibility one person, one country at a time. Like you said, T, we need to stop wrong-doing whilst its happening. We need to do the right thing on a personal level. We should not turn our heads while others are being harmed, even if our own personal safety is at risk. When we leave matters to the police or to “others” — we lose security, we lose strength as communities. We lose humanity when we spend more time twittering than we do with our children or friends or getting to know the timid neighbor lady.

    However, ‘acting’ to prevent harm that may come to others, interfering in a domestic dispute for example can be a deadly choice. We must weigh the action with the consequences with the possible outcomes. At what cost do we pursue personal responsibility? At what cost do we pursue the act of doing good? I know it is and always has been a gut reaction for me. I do what it is right. I interfere in domestic violence. I help others who need help. I help others who ask. I give money to the vagrants who litter street corners. I give food to the man with a box in front of the store. I am a paid member of the Audubon Society, ACLU, and the Arbor Day Foundation. I give to charity. I volunteer. I called the police when I saw my neighbor towering above his wife, threatening her with violence. I’ve planted trees. I’ve gathered resources to help women leave abusive relationships. I’ve counseled many to find their own paths. I believe in doing whats right. The line begins to blur when we must define “what is right”.

    When we take this practice of “personal responsibility” to a national level or a world level it gets a bit complicated. Our right is not necessarily right for other countries, other societies. How do we decide what is right? Is it “right” for us to decide for others? And what price are we willing to pay for doing “the right thing”? What are we willing to sacrifice? National security? When we insist on doing the “right” thing on a national level, we must be ready to pay the toll. First, we must decide what is right and then we must get other countries to support that notion. If they do, we proceed in good conscience but do so knowing we may make the offenders angry. They may retaliate. This is true for the man beating his wife and for the country beating its people and for the religious group oppressing its subjects.

    Even if we mind our own national business and never interfere with other countries affairs, which I assure you we will never do, we still do not guarantee freedom. And robbing us our freedoms and liberties will not protect us. Think of the police states of the past. Were those people safe? Were they secure? It is a non-argument, a smokescreen to distract us from the truth. There is no permanent, untouchable safety. Not in our neighborhoods or state or country or world. We cannot bargain away our freedom for safety. There will always be terrorists. There will always be the abusive husband beating his wife and children. There will always be the rogue country. There will always be the extreme religions. There will always be the two-bit thug who shoots the elderly couple for the little money they have stashed away for a rainy day. There will always be the threat of harm. Our Government cannot protect us from everything forever and always. We elect people into the Government in order to make decisions for our local cities, states and even our country. Then we must trust them to do this or vote them out. We will as a nation step into dangerous situations “to do the right thing.” We will do this rightfully and not-so-rightfully as we did with the Iraq war. We, the people, supported this war as a country in the beginning because we were lied to and now we know the truth. Does that make any difference to the young extreme fundamentalist recruit who watched his family die in the process? No. And pray tell…how will giving up our freedoms help prevent him from becoming a rightful citizen and turning one day into a mass murderer? How would giving up our freedoms or liberties protect us from the maniac born and bred in this country who cannot take another day of his tortured mind and so he shoots up a school? It cannot. It will not.

    Our Government CANNOT guarantee our safety all the time from every threat. But it can become a threat in and of itself if we allow it to strip us of our basic rights—yielding our own personal rights to allow it to become a secret police state. Our founding fathers had the good sense to create the Constitution which set in place our personal freedoms and liberties, our inalienable rights, while setting up inviolable restrictions on what our Government can do to us without proper procedure. When we allow these inalienable rights to be taken from us we are in MORE danger, not less. We then have a group of people who do not and cannot always make the right decisions with UNCHECKED power and we have no recourse to set things straight. Our Constitution keeps the very important system of checks and balances in our government protected. Power unchecked corrupts, folks. Laws such as the Patriot Act rape our Constitutional rights and leave us no safer.

    The Government now has the power to listen in on EVERY single conversation, to read every email, to monitor our web surfing, to know what we purchase at the grocery story, even to know every book you’ve ever checked out—but how are we safer? Do you feel safer? Where in the Patriot Act or any other loss of personal freedom can you prove security and safety? Where is the data to back it up? Where is the proof? Where is the evidence? There is none. It is a scare-tactic—hyperbole.

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin

  • http://wolfsongs.com/ Alpha Wolf

    I read your comment … which I think is well written and agree with everything in it … and thought that there might be something that I wrote that I did not phrase properly. Well, I think I found it!

    So if a bunch of people like those who were interviewed above had gotten together and confronted the husband in Maine and reported him and otherwise acted against him, the chances of him being found out as a Nazi and a dirty bomb parts collector and potential maker would have been significantly higher.

    There is another section…

    The police would tell you to call them and don’t act. That is the safe way, and it may also solve the issue. However, it will be at the cost of your freedom.

    The second part is particularly damning as it appears that I am basically writing that one should act instead of calling the proper authorities as a standard action. I never intented to write something that advocated that. What I meant was that one should always call the proper authorities, and if the situation makes it necessary one should also be ready to act if they think that some action is necessary and the police will not be there in time.

  • http://wolfsongs.com Alpha Wolf

    I read your comment … which I think is well written and agree with everything in it … and thought that there might be something that I wrote that I did not phrase properly. Well, I think I found it!

    So if a bunch of people like those who were interviewed above had gotten together and confronted the husband in Maine and reported him and otherwise acted against him, the chances of him being found out as a Nazi and a dirty bomb parts collector and potential maker would have been significantly higher.

    There is another section…

    The police would tell you to call them and don’t act. That is the safe way, and it may also solve the issue. However, it will be at the cost of your freedom.

    The second part is particularly damning as it appears that I am basically writing that one should act instead of calling the proper authorities as a standard action. I never intented to write something that advocated that. What I meant was that one should always call the proper authorities, and if the situation makes it necessary one should also be ready to act if they think that some action is necessary and the police will not be there in time.

  • http://www.crowgyrls.com/ Meg

    I see. =) Yes, there are certain situations best handled by the authorities.

  • http://www.crowgyrls.com/ Meg

    I do go on tangents, don’t I? =)

  • http://www.crowgyrls.com Meg

    I see. =) Yes, there are certain situations best handled by the authorities.

  • http://www.crowgyrls.com Meg

    I do go on tangents, don’t I? =)

  • http://wolfsongs.com/ Alpha Wolf

    Yeah, but it’s ok as long as you are making sense ;)

  • http://wolfsongs.com Alpha Wolf

    Yeah, but it’s ok as long as you are making sense ;)

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